Curse

Gennadios · Jan 13, 2011, 11:41 PM // 23:41

To whom it may concern:

I am currently helping a friend that hasn't played since the first year back into the game. The account is Proph/EotN only, and while there are enough decent skills to get a good Hero group set up, there aren't enough heroes.

I was looking at the non-core heroes, trying to get extra flexibility, and some of them made me downright angry:

Xandra: Was she meant as an "F-You" to the Factionsless EotN owners or did some character designer actually think her starter build was acceptable? Any half decent hero can be repurposed for a non-primary role as long as there's something that can be done with the primary attribute. Instead we get a batch of barely usable Channeling/Resto skills. At the very least giver give her Boon of Creation so she can be repurposed as an AotL MM, freeing up Livia for SS. I'm not even asking for Explosive Growth, BoC will be enough.

Anton: His skills are actually good, but a hero sin anywhere near the front lines is suicide. How about Way of the Master so people can slap a Hornbow on him and call it a day? Not asking for Critical Eye here, that's too much and giving it away for free would remove the main selling point of Factions, but some kind of admission that people might be equipping their sins with more than daggers would be great.

Hayda: Has decent skills that can be filled in with the prophecies Tactics line.

Khamu: *sigh* I have nothing to say until the mythical Derv update is released.

Any chance we can get something like that packaged in with the full hero party patch? I realise ANet wants to sell extra campaigns, but people did pay for EotN, those heroes should have some minimal standard of usability.

Elmindreda Farshaw · Jan 14, 2011, 12:40 AM // 00:40

UA monk, Panic Mes, AotL MM, that will get you through almost any area hero wise, as for the utility aspect of non core heroes, just have him run the core and you (i assume you have all the campaigns) can run the others. You shouldn't be surprised that you can't use skills from the campaigns you don't own, its been that way since they factions came out.

jazilla · Jan 14, 2011, 12:41 AM // 00:41

It kinda goes without saying that if you want decent Sin and Rit skills, then Factions is a must. It's a must for two reasons: 1.) The skills that you get with Factions and knowing how to equip skills on your heroes because you have played that class and understand how they work. IMHO, Assassin heroes are sub-par. Period. I have never found a good use for Assassin heroes when there are other professions that work so much more smoothly. Same goes for Derv heroes but you already said something about that. Your friend has no reason at this point not to just buy Factions. These games go on sale all the time for dirt cheap and are WAY worth the purchase price.

Gennadios · Jan 14, 2011, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmindreda Farshaw

UA monk, Panic Mes, AotL MM, that will get you through almost any area hero wise, as for the utility aspect of non core heroes, just have him run the core and you (i assume you have all the campaigns) can run the others. You shouldn't be surprised that you can't use skills from the campaigns you don't own, its been that way since they factions came out.

Rits can and should be able to AotL MM, all it takes is one skill. And I'm not out to be a babysitter, my main priority is to help gather the skills necessary for a good hero setup. Yes, it's currently possible to set up all the heroes you listed, but if and when full hero parties are implemented, there still won't be any use to the remaining heroes, and as bad as Sins and Dervs may be, on the right teams they can still be marginally better than henchies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

Your friend has no reason at this point not to just buy Factions. These games go on sale all the time for dirt cheap and are WAY worth the purchase price.

Well, there is, I don't hide the fact that I hate Factions with a passion and refuse to help with it, as well as the fact that my guild doesn't really do anything in factions, most activity is centered around EotN and the core dungeons.

Lanier · Jan 14, 2011, 05:26 AM // 05:26

going to have to /notsign this one. Definitely seems like a waste of dev time to get you something that you want simply because you arnt willing to buy factions.

caballo_oscuro · Jan 14, 2011, 06:10 AM // 06:10

/notsigned

The whole point of the game is the skills and acquiring them in the campaign that you find them in.

The idea of eye of the north is that the expansion is intended for experienced players. Having just one campaign and the expansion limits your skills. That is the whole point of having different skillsets.

If your friend really has no intention of going and playing all the games to unlock the skills, they can buy the skill unlock packs. They will unlock all skills for pvp and your pve heroes.

But seriously, how can you, an experienced player complain about this, knowing full well that moving between campaigns to acquire skills/heroes/weapons/titles is the whole point of the game? You have to go to the location to get what you want.

Not rocket science. If there's a build you like, go and get the skills in the campaign you need. Basic heroes are there for basic play. Eotn is not intended for basic players so if you want to bring heroes out to play and just run through campaigns and hammer the bejesus out of everything, at least go and get the skills in the campaigns or buy the skill packs. It's money or time. Your choice.

Dagoth Umbra · Jan 14, 2011, 06:15 AM // 06:15

There is cheap, and then there is your friend's cheapness. Buy Factions and Nightfall. Or quit Guild Wars.

Acehole2006 · Jan 14, 2011, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Really your thinking about this the wrong way.

Players who have been here from the start would have seen things this way......

Prophecies, then Factions, then Nightfall (heros where introduced) then Eye Of The North. (extra heros)

So technically the hero's from Eye Of The North where just extra's from the hero's in nightfall.

This argument unfortunatly for you is or would be the same argument as a faction owner saying " Why aint we got any hero's at all, and we have no Dervish or Paragon skills".

The fact you have access to an Rt Hero without owning factions is more of a gift than a slap round the face.

/not signed.

Fail.

Ben-A-BoO · Jan 14, 2011, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Like Acehole said:
EotN is supplemental to the stand-alone games, not the other way round.

That they included in EotN two heroes of each of the campaign specific professions (Factions: Rit & Sin; Nightfall: Para & Der) tells you something. Namely that if you want the full range of Rit & sins skills you'll need Factions and Nightfall for Paras and Dervs (or the respective unlock packs).

EotN is an addition to the other campaigns you own, Nothing less, nothing more.

reaper with no name · Jan 14, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Remind me again why people hate sin heroes? They're no worse than warrior heroes once you give them a simple JS->FF->DB setup without any unnecessary bells or whistles. And then maybe critical defenses if you're concerned about their lack of armor.

As for the OP, /notsigned for reasons that have previously been explained.

Gennadios · Jan 14, 2011, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben-A-BoO

Namely that if you want the full range of Rit & sins skills you'll need Factions and Nightfall for Paras and Dervs (or the respective unlock packs).

Who was asking for the "full range of rit and sin skills?" Do people even bother reading OPs anymore?

I could care less about when EotN stands on the time line. Both NF and Proph have a full range of elites and skills that can support a functional MM, only Fac has a full range of elites and skills that can support an SoS.

And by the time EotN was released it was already general knowledge that spawning power, with the right e-management skills would produce a functional rit MM.

Ergo, it was fully feasible long before release to have a functional Rit hero while only owning any one of the 3 campaigns. It was well known by then and could have been facilitated with a single skill.

This kind of "oversight" is direct marketing bait and switch to sell a shitty campaign that simply isn't worth playing.

Kunder · Jan 14, 2011, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Remind me again why people hate sin heroes? They're no worse than warrior heroes once you give them a simple JS->FF->DB setup without any unnecessary bells or whistles. And then maybe critical defenses if you're concerned about their lack of armor.

Warrior hero AI is horrible enough already that no one should be using them, and Assassin heroes have the additional problems of having no idea that they should not be tanking with 80 armor and not comboing skills quickly.

Acehole2006 · Jan 14, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gennadios

Who was asking for the "full range of rit and sin skills?" Do people even bother reading OPs anymore?

I could care less about when EotN stands on the time line. Both NF and Proph have a full range of elites and skills that can support a functional MM, only Fac has a full range of elites and skills that can support an SoS.

And by the time EotN was released it was already general knowledge that spawning power, with the right e-management skills would produce a functional rit MM.

Ergo, it was fully feasible long before release to have a functional Rit hero while only owning any one of the 3 campaigns. It was well known by then and could have been facilitated with a single skill.

This kind of "oversight" is direct marketing bait and switch to sell a shitty campaign that simply isn't worth playing.

scratches head ..... honestly that was hard to take in what you are meaning by all of this. I fear rage has set in.

so your saying ....Nightfall and Prophecies can make a fully functional MM and meanwhile Factions has skills to support an SoS Rt, but with all three campaigns u could create a functional MM Rt and by the time eye of the north was released we all knew this. But then you say we can have a fully functional RT while only owning 1 campaign. But your orignal thread stated you was unhappy that 1 campaign (Prophecies) was poor with EOTN because of the skills it lacked from Factions and Nightfall to create a decent Rt Hero.

To be honest people are know reading my post scratching their heads trying to take in my reply to your riddle.

NerfHerder · Jan 15, 2011, 08:21 PM // 20:21

/notsigned

You can has Factions and NF skills when you has Factions and NF.

It's dirtcheap to buy those campaigns right now. Yes, you can play EotN if you only own Prophecies. But it was meant for players that already own the other campaigns.